Moderator
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I wrote a blog on effective criticism last night. jdwyer suggested that I should repost it on the forums for wider exposure, so here goes.
Introduction
Plenty of people are nervous about giving and receiving criticism, for a wide variety of reasons, but I firmly believe that good criticism helps everyone -- the musician, the listener, even innocent bystanders. And, over the course of this long, tedious blog, I'm going to explain why. Pay attention, there's a test at the end.
Criticism is good for the musician.
Caveat: Some people hate criticism. Some people honestly don't want it, or insist that it's sent by private message. Find out who they are, and respect their wishes. Most people aren't like that.
For most musicians, constructive criticism is a very positive experience. We post our music here so that people can listen to it, but when every comment reads 'This is amazing and sounds professional', regardless of whether it's a highly polished epic or a rotten turnip, each comment means less and less, until eventually it becomes a meaningless chorus of blind approval.
But never mind that -- positive comments can help to build confidence, after all, particularly for new artists.
No, the real problem is that it encourages stagnation. If I upload an amateurish mix with some serious flaws, and half a dozen people tell me it's perfect, I have very little motivation to try to make the next one better -- especially if it happens on the next ten songs I upload as well. Ultimately, I start to believe the platitudes, and at that point I lose my momentum -- and I stagnate. I'm as good as I'll ever be -- probably worse, in fact, because the more I post, the more people will know my name and will comment on my songs, and so the more ego stroking I'll get, regardless of how little effort I invest.
It isn't just about ego and motivation, either. Constructive criticism helps to show me things in my music which I overlooked. Sometimes people will disagree with my musical choices, and that's fine for both of us, but more often I've found that people will highlight something that I'd never noticed as a problem because I'd spent too many hours listening to the blasted thing while mixing it, but which is glaringly obvious when given a little perspective.
Lastly, awesome as I am, I don't know how to do everything. I'm not saying you do either, but you probably know how to do something I can't. If you keep that information locked up in your head, I might discover it myself eventually, or I might never find out. Call me greedy, but I want to know now, and I'll get it faster if you tell me. Please.
Criticism is good for the listener.
Effective criticism is a skill, and it's one that's very useful to have as a musician. When I sit down to write a constructive comment on someone's song, I listen to it carefully -- much more carefully than I listen to music on the radio (most of the time, anyway -- my girlfriend hits me when she catches me analysing stuff too much). Listening critically helps me to understand sound: how it's made, how it's manipulated, and, most importantly, what makes something sound good or bad. That's especially important for people like us, who tend to do our own production as well as the composition and performance -- we have so many bases to cover that we need to take every opportunity we can to improve.
By listening to other people's music, I can work on developing my ear. Using other people's music helps a lot -- I don't tend to have the emotional investment in it that blinds me to the faults in my own work. Sometimes I hear problems that I know how to fix, in which case I can share the solution with the artist; sometimes I hear something that I have no idea how to do, in which case I can ask the artist and learn a new trick myself. Either way, someone gets something out of it -- and that has to be good.
Criticism is good for innocent bystanders.
A lot of people don't just listen to a song and then leave a comment (or not) -- they'll also read some or all of the comments other people have already left. If someone reads a comment which highlights a problem and suggests a solution to it, that person might well then be able to apply that solution to a similar problem in one of their own songs. Or maybe someone will come along who disagrees with the comment, and offer a suggestion of their own -- which, as noted above, is good for the musician and for the new critic. Then a third person comes along and does the same, until it all snowballs out of control into a utopian world in which everyone benefits from everything and chocolate is free and not remotely fattening --
Sorry, getting carried away.
Common reasons why people don't like to give criticism.
Who am I to criticise? I couldn't do any better.
Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. I don't care; I still want your comments and criticisms. You're a person with ears; you listen to music, and you like some things and don't like others. I'd like to know what those things are. Maybe I agree, maybe I don't, but either way it'll get me to think critically about my work, and that usually leads me to discover something I could do better next time, or just something new I'd like to try.
I don't have anything constructive to say -- it really does sound professional to me! No, really!
If that's true, that's cool -- I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes run across stuff on this site that I can't begin to imagine how to improve.
But don't let that be an excuse, especially if you're commenting on a genre that you know well. For example, I listen to a great deal of metal, so I'm well acquainted with how professional metal mixes sound. Guitar tones vary, but professional mixes have 'a sound' which identifies them as something that came out of a pro studio -- and a lot of metal that goes up on iComp simply doesn't sound like that, no disrespect intended to the many fine metallers here. It's taken a lot of careful listening, but I've learnt to identify a lot of the elements which make professional mixes sound pro, and how to achieve some of them. My own mixes now sound a thousand times better than they did when I first started, and it would be a happy day for me if I could pass that knowledge on to everyone else too.
So if you're really having trouble finding anything to say, try picking a handful of iComp songs in a genre you know well, and comparing those songs to some professional mixes in the same style. (It doesn't really matter what you use to listen -- good quality monitors or headphones give very detailed reproductions of the sound, but terrible speakers can make certain problems stand out much more obviously than good speakers would, so experiment!) Now, listen carefully, and switch frequently between the pro mixes and the amateur ones. Does anything strike you as significantly different? If so, try to figure out what it is. You can always ask for help if you get stuck; we don't bite, and your questions will probably benefit lots of people. (Notice a recurring theme?)
I'm not good with words / I don't know enough about music to say it right / I don't know how to express myself.
Again, maybe, maybe not -- but if you let that stop you, you'll never get better at it, and it really is worth getting better at it. If your heart is in the right place, the overwhelming majority of people will be much more concerned with what you're saying than how you're saying it -- and the more you do it, the easier it'll be, and the better you'll get.
I might upset you.
It's possible, although I doubt it, at least in my case. So long as you're polite, most people will take constructive criticism in the spirit in which it's intended -- indeed, you'll probably be astonished by how grateful most people are.
The key word is 'constructive': no-one wants to read 'Your song is boring and so are you', but a comment like 'Toward the end, I found that it became a little repetitive; maybe you could introduce a couple of new elements to keep things fresh?' is much less likely to ruffle feathers.
If you're in doubt, try using the following simple structure:
1. Say something nice.
2. Say the 'difficult' bit.
3. Say something else nice.
That way the artist goes into your comment with a warm feeling, so is in a good mood when they read the critical bit, and then they have something nice at the end to perk themselves up again if they need it.
(Someone's going to pop up and call this the 'PR Hamburger' if I don't, so I suppose I'd better get it out of the way. I don't like the term because it implies to me that you're deviously 'spinning' your comment, rather than just being tactfully honest. There, I've said it now, let's move on.)
You might say something nasty about one of my songs.
Leaving negative comments and/or ratings in 'revenge' is strictly prohibited on iCompositions. If this happens to you, report it to a moderator immediately. Please, please don't let this put you off -- otherwise, the bullies have already won.
Conclusion
Constructive criticism is a skill like any other. It can be learnt, and it improves with practice. But more importantly, any time you leave a constructive comment on a song, you're helping the artist, yourself, and anyone else who happens to be reading -- and if that isn't a good thing, someone must've redefined 'good thing' and not told me. And I hate that.
-Eido
PS I lied about the test. But if you scrolled down to check -- ha, made you look. |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 10:05 am |
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Moderator
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Seven people have already left insightful comments on the blog entry; I'd encourage you to read those too.
The original blog.
-Eido |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 10:06 am |
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Artist
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Yes definitely needed to be a forum post because I missed in your Blog  .... Very well put as usual and informative.
Moses |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 10:19 am |
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Moderator
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In a nutshell 'Say what you REALLY think, keep it nice, and stop the 'fluffy bunny'-ness'.
Right y/n?  |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 11:12 am |
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Artist
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BAM! I need to work harder on "Effective Criticism"
PS - Hi Edio, some quality advice & writing to boot!
~Doc   |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 11:45 am |
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Artist
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I feel progress will be made everywhere |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 11:51 am |
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Artist
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beautiful words. Fear... Fear of reaction is what people have.. I'm afraid to say "this is bad because, A... B... but I like C. My personal views on criticism are similar. (I hope I'm not in the unprofessional sounding category lol)
The only way to get better, is to have people tell you what's wrong. I solicited responses from those I know are going to give me true and helpful advice. Not that I mind the good rub to the ego, these aren't going to help my skills get better.
Always start with what you like. I say as well
"I like the potential the song has, the melody/riff is great, however this is **** **** **** **** and I'd like to hear it with **** **** ****. Overall great song just needs ****." (replacing the **** with the actual issues and advice) |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 12:13 pm |
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Moderator
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This is one of those forum posts that's so important, it should be made a Sticky to stay at the top of the Forum lists. |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 12:40 pm |
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Artist
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BINGO!!!! |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 12:48 pm |
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Artist
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| jdwyer05 wrote: | | This is one of those forum posts that's so important, it should be made a Sticky to stay at the top of the Forum lists. |
Very True JD HOWEVER. ((needed to throw that in...lol)) Knowing the skills is not going to do any good unless members take the TIME to do it; we can't be lazy
~Doc |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 12:59 pm |
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Artist
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yeah i always found out very difficult to express my comment on english words, not too mention i dont know to say some stuff on english words, sigh language can be problem sometimes,
also made me worried people might get missuderstood by what i actually tryin to tell , hehe
but then again, i will say it though, if they dont understand it, then they will probably left me PM to spot the words they dont understand
of course, i always agree about listen more to the genre that you normally like , i like dance/electronic so sometimes i just comment little or even dont leave a comment on other genre, cause i dont know much about it
anyway, also about the ego stuff, yep that is defenitely the most make sense to me, since you getting alot of good comment, the more ego stroking
and that is very true, so sometimes makes you even worry to leave a comment,
and pluss i agreed that maybe it is a good idea if you say it on the description that if you like a constructive comment to be send private not in public hehe
but that's only for those who just want to
anyway, good posting, very usefull, and encourage people to start not too worry about giving and constructive comment to someone's work hehe |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 1:12 pm |
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Artist
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and i forgot to say it too, someone (sorry forgot the name) was saying on the eido blog about to post comment anonymously, which is that is i think can become a good idea for PM to concern about in the future change
i mean it would be no hars feeling since we dont know who is talking, or giving the comment too, and plus maybe in the future PM can make a two button for us if we wanna post a comment, like posting (show name) and posting (anonymously)
i mean then people can choose, hehe |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 1:18 pm |
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Artist
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Great post/blog, Eido. I can only strive to have your committment and tenacity to listen to/comment on as much music as you do. I realize others on this site have far larger Comment counts than you, but your comments truly matter, as you're really listening and critiquing the song.
Myself, I don't have it in me to do what you do. With very few exceptions, I comment on the tunes I listen to (all the way through -- this may seem obvious, but this doesn't always happen here), and I listen to the tunes I like. If I'm not drawn in within the first 15 seconds or so, I'm not commenting. This is what works for me. It's not meant to say it should work this way for everyone else.
In any case, well done, and hat's off to you.
Jay |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 2:50 pm |
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Artist
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Great thread and good thoughts all around. Criticism should be about growth--and sometimes that's a tad painful. Nobody really likes to hear that their 'work of art' could be actually *gasp* be improved, but music making is a process, not a product.
I'm not hearing a lot in the way of truly professional music on this site, because most of us aren't professional musicians, right? I really don't want platitudes, but I do appreciate constructive feedback.
It takes effort to create music. It takes effort to actively(keyword) listen to music as well. In tandem, criticism should also take some effort. I'd go so far as to suggest the PR Hamburger or something like it be implemented as a template on the site when people submit comments. Kudos, Eido. Good work! |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 2:53 pm |
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Artist
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hmmm,  i thinking more like most of us aren't commercial artist, hehe or maybe that is what you mean by it anyway, hehe
but even though those prof musician does makes income out for their works, they do still learning hehe
the difference is , they just had found their way to get to the record deal hehe (well that is my opinion though) hehe |
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Aug 05, 2008 | 3:44 pm |
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