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Forums » Lounge » Effective Criticism

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Eido should make that a video blog and grab a few of his own tracks (so as not to have anyone feel singled out) apply what he means and post it.
TC
Artist Page Send Message Aug 05, 2008 | 6:05 pm
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It's intresting to observe how threads about 'this 'n that' recently have expressed 'frank and open' (whoever they are?) viewpoints, should folk apply the same criteria on a song comment, because it's obvious there are a lot of 'articulate' members of iCompositions.

Bahd grammeer whut folke writ doz me haed inn un d'ont git mee onn spullingg. Smile
Latest Song: Dandelion (edit)
Artist Page Send Message Aug 05, 2008 | 8:29 pm
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There are a few things I'd like to add.

Advice should simple concise, and go straight to the point. If you're taking the time to write a 4 page description of everything the songwriter did wrong, I'd loathe hearing you speak. (That is the sound of Oxygen being wasted.) Get to the point, don't stray off into other issues, tell us what's major, and share what the big picture is.

I like to hear what's good and what's bad. Sometimes though people tend to go overboard on things that are beyond the user's control. "You need to take X out" What if X is in a set of loops and cannot be removed, then when the user explains it, provides the website where loops were purchased, and then is accused of say sarcasm for giving a truthful/honest answer . And the person feels the answer was one that was in no way sarcastic? Wink My point is this... "Never assume anything because assuming makes a 'backside' out of you and me." (My mother said it differently, but it amounts to the same phrase. Wink )
It's all in assumptions. One cannot assume to know everything and judge everything just because. Judge not, lest ye be judged.

"Wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." Socrates

Just because you may have knowledge in an area than the person you're talking too doesn't, does not mean you're always right. History is written by the victor, so it seems their view is ALWAYS right. In truth and in education, one learns this is never the actual case.

It is vital that when one is giving advice, that it needs to be well thought advice, and not badly worded and incomprehensible. I can forgive typos and misspellings, I can forgive lack of punctuation. I can't forgive nonsense and poorly worded phrases that make no sense.

One of my favorite terms that applies anywhere there's a public view or dealing with others is "The spear in the other's heart is the spear in thy own, you are he." Which means if you do it to someone, then it's fair game and it'll be done to you (What goes around, comes around)

You your own worst critic as well. If you as an artist like the way something came out and someone else doesn't, and the you are given advice you don't like, do two things. Read it, don't fear it. Read what are they saying, then read the lines and then in between them. It might help you in the future or the next song. Second and most important, feel free to ignore the advice and move on. Let's say those loops had some odd compressor that someone points out and there's nothing you can do about taking it off, just ignore it. (I did Wink ) Feel free to ignore and move on.
Don't be afraid, use your fear if you ARE afraid, and make it work for you. Please don't let it control you. Never give up, Never surrender, and Never care what people think.

Also, Never give in to anger. Reacting in anger because someone gave you a bad rating or comment is bad. If the comment/rating is so bad, contact PM and he'll kindly remove it. But never let anger cloud your judgment and react violently. Anger leads to a lot of issues and marks peoples opinions of you. If someone reacts violently or in anger against me repeatedly, I do the best thing possible and dismiss them from existence in my reality.

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it."

As a phrase applies to comments, and doing so avoids angry reactions. And it applies to those that have acted in anger to me, I simply say nothing to them. Sometimes one's anger makes one respond in snide comments and makes one goad others into responses that are unnecessary, just because one's own anger has led the other person away from niceties. RE: Ignore it and move on. There's no other way. Keeping doing the same things means you're not learning from history, you're repeating it repeatedly.

"You can please some of the time, not everyone all of the time." So if you're happy, be happy and ignore whatever the issue is. Cast out that fear and move on.

Do or do not. But all one can do sometimes is try. Don't be afraid to re-try and re-try and get back up.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words may never harm me." This is in no way true. Words do hurt the heart, mind, and one's ego. But don't let the emotions control you. Stop, take several deeps breathes, count backwards from ten, repeat several times, and move on.

So, give short concise advice. Don't fear the bad advice. Don't give in to anger or fear. Relax, make music, and enjoy everyone's music.

Till next time
Latest Song: James Bond Theme
Artist Page Send Message Aug 06, 2008 | 2:35 am
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LOL Billy what's your point? lol

~Doc Smile
Artist Page Send Message Aug 06, 2008 | 6:42 am
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I'm not sure I was just sharing things.. my point.. I thought the thread was about effective criticism... My point was sharing tips.. Sorry if you're the victim of the compressor joke... Don't feel like the Lone Ranger though. You're not the only one. My point is in sharing and trying to help.. sorry I have no way to make it clearer.
Latest Song: James Bond Theme
Artist Page Send Message Aug 06, 2008 | 6:57 am
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eehhhh -- heh-- he
Latest Song: Space Docking
Artist Page Send Message Aug 06, 2008 | 5:04 pm
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I'm soo confused!
I think this is excellent fodder for a music video.
Artist Page Send Message Aug 06, 2008 | 9:12 pm
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and maybe reference the timeline where your crit is relevant,

for this we would be assisted if the playbar was timed......
Latest Song: While The Clouds Pass
Artist Page Send Message Aug 07, 2008 | 7:25 am
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Surak wrote:

Don't be afraid, use your fear if you ARE afraid, and make it work for you. Please don't let it control you.

Also, Never give in to anger.

Do or do not.


The Force is strong with you.

Smile

The whole posting was excellent advice, but I believe there needs to be a new chat color for iCompositions Jedi.

Just saying.

Smile
Artist Page Send Message Aug 07, 2008 | 8:05 pm
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Wise saying young padowan...
Latest Song: Lippedy Spit Collab
Artist Page Send Message Aug 07, 2008 | 8:36 pm
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TO who ever wants to listen to this de-fragmented word roller.....
concerning those that are just to sensitive for this world.. LIKE ME...!!!

HAve you really established a relationship with me of trust, to the point that I will allow you to cut into me... DOUT IT... is that relationship established just because Im at icomps.. NO..!! DOUT IT...

IF YOU WERE TALKING SECRETLY TO GOD>. HOW WOULD YOU WANT HIM TO TALK TO YOU... OK... Talk to others as God would talk to you.. if you dont know what this means.. Ask him.. He will let you know.. Now you have a reason to reach up to God talk to get his help...

OK.. I made my point.. Now.. Ive writen a whole lot more, but you dont have to stay if you dont want to... it goes on and on and on...


OK. Concerning criticism.. First... no negatives.. Period.. Why..!!
it is childish.. O mY.. "I just went negative.. " How does that feel.. !! Thats right.. HOW DOES IT FEEL>.. You hurt my feelings publicly.. YOUR OUT BABY>. Simple as that.. !! I dont mean me.. I mean those that cant really take it.. and most of the time Im not here to have you hide your anger and passive aggression abuse issues through a pen and a smile.... I know your attitude when you right.. and it better be right, or your not coming back...

So... here is a way to give feedback.. The most important feed back is this... build, build , build... .. LOVE< LOVE < LOVE>.
Keep them coming back...!!


that is all I want from you.. Im a little kid inside nothing more, looking for a replacement of the parents I never had, and all the relationships that never worked.. are you going to help change and heel me and help me to forget the cruel world outside these cyber walls, and convince me that this is a better place then the one I come from... ... , or are you going to make the world a colder place once again..

HOW..!! NOTICE I HAVE EVEN MENTIONED MUSIC IN THE UPPER STATEMENT I JUST CREATED>..HMMMM.....

This is not about music here at icomps.. this is a complex social anthropological experiment, ment to see if a sub-society can flourish and maybe do better then the one I have to live in everyday... AND YOU KNOW IT..!! SO dont try to huck and Jive me, by cutting me down, and making excuses for it... Im not your victim.. that is not what Im doing on icomps..

That you secretly feel better about yourself at my expense.. Human nature doesn't change.. even here with abstract musicianry....

IF I insult the person, Ive lost them.. its that simple.. what am I really trying to convey here..? what good is that.. Ive accomplished nothing..

Here is the rule.. only make suggestions that will keep them coming back.. back.. back..


IF they dont come back , what is the point.. LOVE< LOVE LOVE, in an unlovable world.. that is all this place is about.. Nothing. more.. Dont ever forget it.. and dont ever think you can treat me less then what im worth.. or I will simply vanish... and that will be that....

Why am I really here at icomps...

Im trying to get a treat for being a good boy or girl.. and that treat that is fed me will keep me coming back each time.. So

here is the treat... I LOVE YOU.. I LOVE YOU.. I LOVE YOU.. I LOVE YOU.. I LOVE YOU.. anything else.. is unexceptable.,..

When making a comment... Add suggestions of creative interest.. say something that suggests I did listen to thier music.. and I have an idea.. I know what would be cool.. Id love to add this to your song.. or the song.. as if your thier close friend and you've got a great idea, to make things even more interesting, and being totally innocent about it... NO ATTACK PLEASE...
Even this can be risky...

JUST KEEP THEM COMING BACK>. WHEN THIER READY TO LISTEN AND LEARN , THEY WILL....


Your Job is to keep me coming back...!! If I really needed feed back for anything.. I dont need to listen to you, I can go to an expert for that....

And that may happen, if Im still interested in being apart of things here, because your interested in me, and being apart of me... When you not.. I get the message, and no longer show up..

and if you get my trust.... I may turn to the expert thats hiding in you.. and ask a question.... !!

Heres an idea.. if you were talking to God.. How would you want him to talk to you.... OK... then talk to your fellow members the same way...

WATCH THE 'YOU" STATEMENTS.... "you" is a blaming word...

How do I know all of this... simple... MR COOL HERE..!!! has chased plenty of people out of my life and a few from icomps because of my well... Hmmm... SUGGESTIONS>....

OK

OMNI
Latest Song: Evolving classical #1
Artist Page Send Message Aug 08, 2008 | 3:27 am
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AWESOME....I find your thoughts/opinion quite inspiring, although I quite appreciate where Eido is coming from too. The thing of icopmp I like(besides the music) is the spirit/personality of some people...gives me the hope for humanity that I may not get in the day to day. I hate to say it but maybe it's true....all you need is love.
Now excuse me while I go throw up Wink
Artist Page Send Message Aug 08, 2008 | 3:42 am
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"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

hehe

I agree with Omni, I would say it more "Do unto to others as you would have them do to you."

Same as "The spear in the others heart is the spear in thy own." You stabbed, you're gonna get stabbed.

I think we each carry a spark of the divine in ourselves. It's a shame to put out that spark or taint it with anger. It's a shame to put one's self down with foul language and improper behavior as well. It happens. I've done my share of over reacting and over acting in jest. Everyone has at some point. The best thing is learn from it, and try not to do it again. I'm no judge of anyone, and I'm never going to be perfect in whole. But... I get back up there and try and try.

I say don't judge anyone or anything, merely offer an opinion, give sound advice. If it's just an opinion then if the person doesn't like it, they can ignore it. "Opinions are like 'backsides.' Everyone has one and some stink." (again my mother used a different word for backside, but it means the same. Wink )


And to Radio, I'd say I probably stand out enough with the mad bunnies to need or desire a color change. (But if I could I'd take a nice lightsaber neon green lol)
Latest Song: James Bond Theme
Artist Page Send Message Aug 08, 2008 | 5:13 am
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OMNICELL, could you clarify a point for me? It's a pretty important one, and I'm having trouble telling for sure exactly what you mean.

You say that feedback should be motivated by love, and that negative feedback is childish; fair enough, but what do you mean by negative feedback?

For example, is a statement like 'This mix would sound better if you cut some of the high mids' negative feedback -- because it's critical of the song -- or positive -- because it's motivated by a desire to help the artist?

-Eido
Artist Page Send Message Aug 08, 2008 | 6:16 am
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LOL... All I know is that I have a headache now..lol Members are reading WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too much into this subject. Bottom-line, use commonsense (imo)Wink
Artist Page Send Message Aug 08, 2008 | 7:20 am
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