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I thought it was a valid question, personally. Some people really do feel incredibly offended if you leave a comment with any critical content at all; if OMNICELL is one such person, I'd rather know, so that I don't risk offending him in the future.
-Eido |
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Aug 08, 2008 | 11:39 am |
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And therein lies the dilemma of giving effective criticism. Some people simply cannot handle it.
I'll just sit back and watch the show.
(FWIW, Eido, I've always valued your feedback and critique -- it's helped me with my mixing chops and my guitar tone, and I'm very grateful for your input.) |
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Aug 08, 2008 | 11:46 am |
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LOL you crack me up Ignoramus! You have the perfect come-back liners...LOL
Eido, don't loose sleep over all of this  I am sure you have more important things (i.e. musical projects) to be concern with. For what's it worth, your knowledge, talents and gestures are well respected (IMO). 
~Doc
Idea/Suggestion
Perhaps, PM & crew can implement an additional check box on the Upload page stating no comments just "ratings". This would solve 90% for the sensitive individuals out there. If this suggestion I just mentioned is not good, well, perhaps uploading any material should be reconsider. |
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Aug 08, 2008 | 12:03 pm |
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| Ignoramus wrote: | | And therein lies the dilemma of giving effective criticism. Some people simply cannot handle it. |
Yes -- but the good news is that it really is only a handful of people, at least based on my experience. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who I have to avoid commenting on, whereas I've had many, many people send me private messages to say 'Thank you so much for your comment -- it's nice to get something critical for once.'
The problem is that the people who find it upsetting are often very, very vocally passionate about it, which can lead to people being afraid to comment on songs in general in case they accidentally step on a land mine, so to speak. The reason I'm labouring this point is that I dislike the fact that a handful of sensitive individuals has such a strong negative effect on a behaviour which I believe would benefit the majority.
| AshleyBeanHead wrote: | | Eido, don't loose sleep over all of this I am sure you have more important things (i.e. musical projects) to be concern with. |
Is that a polite way of telling me to shut up?  Thing is, it would be easy to drop the discussion and let it go, but I'm hoping to encourage more people across the whole community to comment constructively -- I can quit this thread any time I like because I know I'm right, but I want other people to know too.
| AshleyBeanHead wrote: | | Perhaps, PM & crew can implement an additional check box on the Upload page stating no comments just "ratings". This would solve 90% of the sensitive individuals. |
I'm not convinced. People who want encouragement rather than criticism do genuinely seem to value comments which say 'Wow, this is awesome!', and I wouldn't want to take that away from them. The best strategy I've found is to identify sensitive people, keep a mental list of them and avoid them. It isn't an onerous task because, as I said, the list is very, very short.
-Eido |
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Aug 08, 2008 | 12:13 pm |
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| AshleyBeanHead wrote: |
Idea/Suggestion
Perhaps, PM & crew can implement an additional check box on the Upload page stating no comments just "ratings". This would solve 90% for the sensitive individuals out there. If this suggestion I just mentioned is not good, well, perhaps uploading any material should be reconsider. |
If people want ratings, and no comments then they should say so in their posts. But again, I feel if you only want kudos for efforts then only send your friends who adore you your music. This site was set up as a place where musically creative people can share their music and also get some critiques in order to grow and not just feed the ego.
Being one who's gotten slammed for critical comments (only 2x), I can say it's never stopped me-- and of those two times, one of the artists actually apologized about it and we both moved on.
I think we can all agree that you can be critical and say it/write it nicely... It you can't do it, then brushing up on one's communication skills can never hurt. There are many way to say that this song doesn't do it for you instead of "this sucks" or "this is terrible." Even if you do say the latter, which although harsh isn't that offensive (to me), then explain why it is. There may be some truth in that.
I'm not saying that we all have to write critiques like Eidolonia, AshelyBeanHead (or me) either; the key is really being respectful and honest. |
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Aug 08, 2008 | 1:00 pm |
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Hi JD:
I love to critique!  I believe the artist deserves that respect for their hard, free time they put in however, it is very time consuming, which limits my posting here. Are you directing your reply to me or the house? LOL
PS -Why wasnt I labeled in the same category with Eido and yourself 
~Doc |
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Aug 08, 2008 | 1:07 pm |
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Oh I wasn't replying to you. You brought up an interesting point, so I addressed it.
As for time spent posting. I totally understand and sympathize. That's why it's more important to leave a few good/great crits every now and then that to try and do it all the time.
I should have put you in there. I'll amend my post. |
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Aug 08, 2008 | 2:25 pm |
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I was re-reading OMNICELL'S post... It's interesting for sure and his opinions certainly are valid...
I do have some questions though (Bare in mind- I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU, you implied these, so forgive me if I interpreted it incorrectly. My questions are not meant to insult or mock you.):
Why do you consider anything less than praise negative or insulting?
Why do you only want adulation?
Do you really think that only professionals have valid opinions? If so, then which professionals have valid points? Surely they can't all be valid, especially if it's not complimentary--again, inferred based on what you wrote)?
What constitutes a "professional" to you? If it's someone who makes a living working in the industry or playing music for some income if not all of their income, then there are a LOT of professionals here, so therefore their opinions MUST be valid (at least to you).
| OMNICELL wrote: | | This is not about music here at icomps.. this is a complex social anthropological experiment, ment to see if a sub-society can flourish and maybe do better then the one I have to live in everyday... AND YOU KNOW IT..!! SO dont try to huck and Jive me, by cutting me down, and making excuses for it... Im not your victim.. that is not what Im doing on icomps.. |
Interesting conspiracy theory- the anthropological experiment thing. I'm not buying that at all though. Sorry. This site was borne out of a person's fascination with music software and his desire to set up a place where like-minded individuals, pros and amateurs alike can share their music, get some feedback and think about things differently based on that. There is no "hidden anthropological agenda" (oris there PM?).
I'll reiterate my point again (and it's not directed only to OMNICELL): | Quote: | | if people want ratings, and no comments then they should say so in their posts (maybe they can even state they only want adulation and no critical comments). But again, I feel if you only want kudos for efforts then only send to your friends who adore you your music. This site was set up as a place where musically creative people can share their music and also get some critiques in order to grow and not just feed the ego. |
The point of this forum post is to show that one can offer critical comments and do it in a way that is not intended to offend; but to help. And also make music the most important thing here, not the ego (and I know, it's sometimes impossible to do that with creatives)
Paul McCartney wrote this once: | Quote: | "Just Because Love Was
All We Ever Wanted
It Was All We Ever Had.
It's Not Just A Loving Machine,
It Doesn't Work Out
If You Don't Work At It." |
In the song he was writing about marriage and how you have to work at it. Love wasn't/isn't all that was/is needed.
I tend to think this is the way life is in general.
What can I say, I'm a cynic. |
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Aug 08, 2008 | 10:40 pm |
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RESPECT
that's what it boils down to. |
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Aug 09, 2008 | 11:19 pm |
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I never critique some ones music, I don't feel qualified to do so, some times I will mention a big mistake but that is unusual for me, if I really dislike a piece I choose to say nothing at all, a silent mouth is a golden mouth, it offends know one... |
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Aug 09, 2008 | 11:52 pm |
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Ok, so even I can't turn this political! But speaking only for myself, I know that with no formal musical training and no training in production or lyric writing, I would so much rather have folks suggest things that I could do better. Recently, Rusticalia made a suggestion that I up the compression on a tune and make it louder after the fact. Not only did he let me know where a song could be improved, but how to do it.
I know that my music is at best decent for a recreational musician; I'm not going to get a record deal or anything like that, but that isn't the point. The point for me is to learn what I can from other musicians so that maybe I can break out of the level I'm at now and take it up a bit.
I guess what I'm saying is that for myself, it doesn't matter what the listener's level of skill is- how many people are musicians? But we all know what sounds good and what doesn't. I see all suggestions as valid. If I disagree, then I may choose not to act on it. For instance, one reviewer found the analog noise in my song Anesthesia to be distracting, but I disagreed. There's no personal beef there at all. In fact, I respect the fact that they did mention it to me.
So the point is this: every suggestion has the potential to help improve what we create as musicians. If we choose to accept or not to accept them, that's our choice, but I personally am hugely grateful for suggestions where I could improve. Now that doesn't mean that it doesn't rock when someone has a kind comment. That's awesome and appreciated as well.
So like uh... I'm like angry with numbers. Or something. huh huh huh huh |
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Aug 10, 2008 | 3:08 am |
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.....in effect iComp already permits U to show others U like and prefer constructively criticism (stars aren't available in that case), maybe could be useful giving also the opposite chance (showing others U prefer only generic feedback, in this case maybe just using the stars without any comment)? |
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Aug 10, 2008 | 3:31 am |
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That's exactly what I do. I've had too many songs that got straight 5's and they weren't that good. So as much as I appreciated the kindness of the people listening, I figured that if I took those off the table, more criticism would be voiced without worrying about ratings. Why worry about them anyway? it's just a number after all. In any event, it seems to have worked. But then again, it depends on the community and this community is really one of the best out there.
Except that radiorebelde guy. he's kind of a dick. LOL |
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Aug 10, 2008 | 1:39 pm |
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I am not sure this comment belongs in this forum but here goes anyway.
My personal beliefs are that constructive comments good or bad are whats needed for any one to progress. But saying that, its hard to comment on all the music thats being produced here! which brings me to my next point.
Due to the vast amount of uploads every day (which is a byproduct of the site being so popular which is obviously a good thing) i have a feeling that a lot of good music is being missed & becoming somewhat 'throw away' & therefore there is immense pressure to keep churning out more & more songs to get noticed, personally i am gonna slow right down on my output.
If what I produce is either good or bad but someone somewhere likes it then i have done what i set out to do regardless of comment & if i can hopefully make a point, change someones attitude, hit a nerve, provoke a memory or just simply make someone happy along the way, all well & good.
Most people like praise & lets face it we all work hard on what we do & its very personal stuff to us this music lark, our songs are our babies we create, love, nurture & care for them & we naturally want them to do well when we let them venture out into the big wide world, but at the end of the day if just 1 person out there likes it (well to me anyway) then thats all thats matters. |
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Aug 11, 2008 | 9:47 am |
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Excellent points AbstractVision! |
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Aug 11, 2008 | 2:28 pm |
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