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icomps can be many things you can use it as a upload for your music..

are you looking for constructive crits pm someone you admire and ask them to comment ...

if you want to collab ask....

or if you just like making music disregard what everyone says and make music..

tony2008 funny yu mention actors lol songs should be story boards imo
Latest Song: While The Clouds Pass
Artist Page Send Message Jun 06, 2009 | 12:36 pm
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A very helpful post, one that I will refer to time and again.
Artist Page Send Message Jun 26, 2009 | 12:14 am
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Well, i think there is nothing to add to what Eidolonia said.

E.g. I am here on icomps because i love to make music and share it. and yes, i want to develope - me and my music(-work). how can i grow (musicaly) when i only get "compliments".

i am for sure not here for .. what is it called in english ... fishing for compliments (?). so i want to here the good but also the bad things. the things i can do better.

even though music is a matter of taste. but hey, maybe someone has a good idea to let things taste better?

a compliment is only that worth what it has truth in it.

i hope my english was not too bad Smile

merry x-mas for all of you Smile
Latest Song: Breath
Artist Page Send Message Dec 22, 2009 | 1:57 pm
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Post moved from Constructive Criticism thread:

OMNICELL wrote:
I dont have anything I want critiqued right now... Thats not why Im writing this..

I am weak.. I am so weak, I want you to tell me how great I am.. So I might believe it, and actually come back and try this one more time... And I might come back, if I feel like a million bucks from your comments....

Thats what I need from you.. support...

Feeling bad has never helped me... Im not interested in your personal opinions, if you think my stuff is boring or it puts you to sleep.

I give allot of critiques.. and what ive found is that when the other person feels like their succeeding.. THEY COME BACK...

Words of life. Not of death..

Im not looking for your attitudes. Im looking to belong.. so I can feel apart of... once that happens.. Im willing to take it all to the next step, and go deeper in my growth.. and at that point.. I will discover all the inconsistencies you wanted to point out in the first place...

What you say to me.. effects me.. How you treat me effects me... IT just does...

If I think you dont care about me... YOUR LEAVING MY SITE PAGE>. AND YOU AINT COMING BACK... AND I WILL LET YOU KNOW POINT BLANK PERIOD>>>>

That doesn't mean I dont take shots from people.. I dont mind real expressions of concern when things just dont match up in the music... Or you Honestly dont like it.. Thats fine.. I dont always like yours either.. Yet, I appreciate your direction, your work, and the interested you put into the project.. and the struggle and the effort and the courage to finish what you started and the willingness to put it out on front street and post it...

Just be kind and rewind.......

OK.. I could go ON and On And On....
Latest Song: Bridging
Artist Page Send Message Dec 29, 2009 | 11:30 pm
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Post moved from Constructive Criticism thread:
toddalanbrodman wrote:
Just to add my two worthless cents, I originally joined the site in hopes of getting advice from pro musicians. I was hoping for something like, as far is criticism is concerned ( in my little vacuum): Todd, I listened to your piece. As far as your asking for improvement on timing, I think you need to work with a metronome and improve your timing. I noticed that it is off with the guitar solo in certain places. Ok, a perfectly fine way of telling someone nicely how to improve their skills. And, I can either say, yeah he's right and go work with a metronome or say, ok thanks, but Dave Brubeck likes to play different time signatures all over the original signature and that is what I'm trying to achieve. Maybe the aforementioned can serve as a template for those who are unwittingly abrasive and want to give real advice.

Who knows what your trying to do, but if you ask for constructive critique the person who is dealing it does not have to be a total dick tracy about it.

Although this is a really neat site, I am very disappointed about how everything is treated like it is a sunny afternoon with pleasantries, tea and lemon squares.

There are some really atrocious performances that get a lot of pats on the back because that person spreads the love around a whole lot. It is nice and it is fun and it is social, but it kind of obscures what I thought this site is all about. Who are the clinicians and the real pros. Why don't they nicely offer up some help! It seems as though they sit upon Mt. Olympus waiting for accolades to reign/rain down on them.

I agree with fuzzynormal that most folks are in it for fun and selfish reasons. In a way, I am too.
Latest Song: Bridging
Artist Page Send Message Dec 30, 2009 | 11:30 am
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For me, words/phrases like rubbish, useless, pointless, going nowhere, amateur, need to scrap and start again etc are all bad ways of offering a critique...Better to use positive and softer words/phrases like good effort, a little too lengthy, not quite clear in the mix, could end a little smoother, the verse doesn't quite gel with chorus and middle 8 etc. Most of these have safety words like could, a little too, not quite...i.e there is more mileage to be had in the song

All of us here, I believe, without exception, have taken the time out to piece together sounds/loops etc, to write lyrics, to play instruments, to sing, to program sequncers/computers, to cover a song or to approach a cover from a different angle etc. We are all passionate and skilled to some degree...there's a million and one other things we could be doing in our free time but, instead, we come here.

So....telling someone their efforts (perhaps after hours, days, weeks, months....)are efectively wasted is a real kick in the teeth. Encouraging them to go that extra mile on something they have already put such effort into is the way to criticise.
Latest Song: 1000 Dreams Come True
Artist Page Send Message Jun 15, 2010 | 5:42 pm
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Good post...

I have gotten to the point where I prefer to have strangers hear my stuff before friends and family, because they always say "it's great" whether they like it or not. That's hollow and doesn't help me at all. It means so much more to me if a person I've never met goes to the trouble to tell me they like my song...wow...that feels good!
And it's vital to hear what doesn't work with the song because, it's your baby, so it seems so perfect to you that you can overlook the very things that you can work on to make it really perfect.
It's so important to have a forum like iComp to have a chance for your art to be heard. Through effective criticism everyone can better their craft.
Thanks for the post...well said...rock on, etc.
Latest Song: the mutiny
Artist Page Send Message Jun 27, 2010 | 8:06 am
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epocetep wrote:
For me, words/phrases like rubbish, useless, pointless, going nowhere, amateur, need to scrap and start again etc are all bad ways of offering a critique...Better to use positive and softer words/phrases like good effort, a little too lengthy, not quite clear in the mix, could end a little smoother, the verse doesn't quite gel with chorus and middle 8 etc. Most of these have safety words like could, a little too, not quite...i.e there is more mileage to be had in the song

All of us here, I believe, without exception, have taken the time out to piece together sounds/loops etc, to write lyrics, to play instruments, to sing, to program sequncers/computers, to cover a song or to approach a cover from a different angle etc. We are all passionate and skilled to some degree...there's a million and one other things we could be doing in our free time but, instead, we come here.

So....telling someone their efforts (perhaps after hours, days, weeks, months....)are efectively wasted is a real kick in the teeth. Encouraging them to go that extra mile on something they have already put such effort into is the way to criticise.


Hear, hear. Agreed wholeheartedly. Creating music - like creating anything else - requires a learning curve, one that never does end, does it? No it is passionate work, always, but work nonetheless. Often, too (in my case anyway) the very best an artist does, do not get the recognition, the money nor the attention deserved (I call it the Van Gogh Syndrome). I see so many hard working and talented artists at this and other sites, and in the current system of commerce and money based economy, with its emphasis on competition and exclusivity, (shaped like a pyramid, those nearer the top are far less than those nearer the bottom) -where everyone is fighting, fighting, fighting to just to live....*sigh*
...many if not most will just not 'make it'. And it is not natural. I believe we are seeing a bottoming out for this system. Something far better and more natural will replace it. Then there will be room enough for all of us.

So a good and sensible critic might wish to take all this into account before launching hir analyses of anyone else's work.

Much Love
Catrina
Artist Page Send Message Jun 28, 2010 | 2:54 am
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I refuse to wrap my critique in BS. As long as i can stand by whay i say, and as long as i say it in a respectful way im good. also i make a point of always saying that im only one individual and its only MY opinion, then i think its up the artist to pick out what he or she can use and throw the other stuff away. Im also one of the persons who almost puke if i see one more "oh this is just the best tune ever" like 90 % of the feedback. If the person dont want critique they shouldnt post their songs. I dont say im a wizard and my wife always tells me all kinds of things thats wrong with my music, but its still my opinion and im gonna say it no matter what people say.
Latest Song: Elephant in the room
Artist Page Send Message Aug 08, 2010 | 11:18 am
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Uhhh...I didn't mean to criticize anyone. I was just wondering how someone can attach their name to a song? for ie by, and the artist's name. I saw and heard "Fat Chance Blues" and it was George playing, but it said, by another artist. Maybe he played so much like Geo I thought it was him playing it. It was not on I-comp that I heard it. I just didn't have any one to ask. Does the by part, mean that the artist is just playing Geo's song? So it's played by that artist? and artist is not taking credit for composing it? Well, I suppose I could ask the artist himself, but I don't want to offend anyone. If anyone can explain this to me, please do. Sorry, I'm not too learned about these matters. I'm mostly a listener. I do play keyboard, write songs and sing some, but not an accomplished, educated, musician. Thanks
Artist Page Send Message Sep 25, 2011 | 12:07 am
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If anyone replys, could you send a message to me. I don't remember exactly how I got to this site.
Have to laugh at my senior,self! thanks
Artist Page Send Message Sep 25, 2011 | 12:12 am
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There are some cases where artists will post collaborative pieces, songs that are made with other artists. In some of those cases, an the artist who posted the song might forget, or not know how, to credit the other artists who have participated in the piece. That is one way that a song might have the name of one artist, but not all of the artists that have worked to create the song.
Artist Page Send Message Sep 25, 2011 | 12:19 am
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09-26-11/ USA!


If we can all get past the fact that this clip is:

1. Dated (1987).
2. Hints to being hosted by a religious organization...

I think it's main message will speak for itself and inspire anyone who is either in the "Music Business" professionally, or is a hobbyist.

Art Williams, "Just Do It!"(7:51):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS5JInqDQas&feature=related

What I'm really getting at, after writing songs for over 40 years, is that in the end I have learned that...I am my own best critic.

You should be your own best critic too and...

"Just Do It!"

BoOm!

MH~
Cool
Artist Page Send Message Sep 26, 2011 | 4:09 am
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What is effective to one, will be insulting for another. What is it then Effective Criticism? Beats me...Just be honest about what you hear and try to tell what you think about it. All the crap we heard to tell the positive things first and then tell whats wrong with it, is rubbish.
If songs are really bad, dont comment. If you know the maker and discover a less good thing, then tell it...!

I think this thread must be closed for banal-driven boredom...
But thats my opinion.

A~
Artist Page Send Message Sep 26, 2011 | 1:11 pm
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I think Eido's beginning to this thread says it all.

Eidolonia wrote:
I wrote a blog on effective criticism last night. jdwyer suggested that I should repost it on the forums for wider exposure, so here goes.

Introduction

Plenty of people are nervous about giving and receiving criticism, for a wide variety of reasons, but I firmly believe that good criticism helps everyone -- the musician, the listener, even innocent bystanders. And, over the course of this long, tedious blog, I'm going to explain why. Pay attention, there's a test at the end.

Criticism is good for the musician.

Caveat: Some people hate criticism. Some people honestly don't want it, or insist that it's sent by private message. Find out who they are, and respect their wishes. Most people aren't like that.

For most musicians, constructive criticism is a very positive experience. We post our music here so that people can listen to it, but when every comment reads 'This is amazing and sounds professional', regardless of whether it's a highly polished epic or a rotten turnip, each comment means less and less, until eventually it becomes a meaningless chorus of blind approval.

But never mind that -- positive comments can help to build confidence, after all, particularly for new artists.

No, the real problem is that it encourages stagnation. If I upload an amateurish mix with some serious flaws, and half a dozen people tell me it's perfect, I have very little motivation to try to make the next one better -- especially if it happens on the next ten songs I upload as well. Ultimately, I start to believe the platitudes, and at that point I lose my momentum -- and I stagnate. I'm as good as I'll ever be -- probably worse, in fact, because the more I post, the more people will know my name and will comment on my songs, and so the more ego stroking I'll get, regardless of how little effort I invest.

It isn't just about ego and motivation, either. Constructive criticism helps to show me things in my music which I overlooked. Sometimes people will disagree with my musical choices, and that's fine for both of us, but more often I've found that people will highlight something that I'd never noticed as a problem because I'd spent too many hours listening to the blasted thing while mixing it, but which is glaringly obvious when given a little perspective.

Lastly, awesome as I am, I don't know how to do everything. I'm not saying you do either, but you probably know how to do something I can't. If you keep that information locked up in your head, I might discover it myself eventually, or I might never find out. Call me greedy, but I want to know now, and I'll get it faster if you tell me. Please.

Criticism is good for the listener.

Effective criticism is a skill, and it's one that's very useful to have as a musician. When I sit down to write a constructive comment on someone's song, I listen to it carefully -- much more carefully than I listen to music on the radio (most of the time, anyway -- my girlfriend hits me when she catches me analysing stuff too much). Listening critically helps me to understand sound: how it's made, how it's manipulated, and, most importantly, what makes something sound good or bad. That's especially important for people like us, who tend to do our own production as well as the composition and performance -- we have so many bases to cover that we need to take every opportunity we can to improve.

By listening to other people's music, I can work on developing my ear. Using other people's music helps a lot -- I don't tend to have the emotional investment in it that blinds me to the faults in my own work. Sometimes I hear problems that I know how to fix, in which case I can share the solution with the artist; sometimes I hear something that I have no idea how to do, in which case I can ask the artist and learn a new trick myself. Either way, someone gets something out of it -- and that has to be good.

Criticism is good for innocent bystanders.

A lot of people don't just listen to a song and then leave a comment (or not) -- they'll also read some or all of the comments other people have already left. If someone reads a comment which highlights a problem and suggests a solution to it, that person might well then be able to apply that solution to a similar problem in one of their own songs. Or maybe someone will come along who disagrees with the comment, and offer a suggestion of their own -- which, as noted above, is good for the musician and for the new critic. Then a third person comes along and does the same, until it all snowballs out of control into a utopian world in which everyone benefits from everything and chocolate is free and not remotely fattening --

Sorry, getting carried away.

Common reasons why people don't like to give criticism.

Who am I to criticise? I couldn't do any better.

Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't. I don't care; I still want your comments and criticisms. You're a person with ears; you listen to music, and you like some things and don't like others. I'd like to know what those things are. Maybe I agree, maybe I don't, but either way it'll get me to think critically about my work, and that usually leads me to discover something I could do better next time, or just something new I'd like to try.

I don't have anything constructive to say -- it really does sound professional to me! No, really!

If that's true, that's cool -- I'll be the first to admit that I sometimes run across stuff on this site that I can't begin to imagine how to improve.

But don't let that be an excuse, especially if you're commenting on a genre that you know well. For example, I listen to a great deal of metal, so I'm well acquainted with how professional metal mixes sound. Guitar tones vary, but professional mixes have 'a sound' which identifies them as something that came out of a pro studio -- and a lot of metal that goes up on iComp simply doesn't sound like that, no disrespect intended to the many fine metallers here. It's taken a lot of careful listening, but I've learnt to identify a lot of the elements which make professional mixes sound pro, and how to achieve some of them. My own mixes now sound a thousand times better than they did when I first started, and it would be a happy day for me if I could pass that knowledge on to everyone else too.

So if you're really having trouble finding anything to say, try picking a handful of iComp songs in a genre you know well, and comparing those songs to some professional mixes in the same style. (It doesn't really matter what you use to listen -- good quality monitors or headphones give very detailed reproductions of the sound, but terrible speakers can make certain problems stand out much more obviously than good speakers would, so experiment!) Now, listen carefully, and switch frequently between the pro mixes and the amateur ones. Does anything strike you as significantly different? If so, try to figure out what it is. You can always ask for help if you get stuck; we don't bite, and your questions will probably benefit lots of people. (Notice a recurring theme?)

I'm not good with words / I don't know enough about music to say it right / I don't know how to express myself.

Again, maybe, maybe not -- but if you let that stop you, you'll never get better at it, and it really is worth getting better at it. If your heart is in the right place, the overwhelming majority of people will be much more concerned with what you're saying than how you're saying it -- and the more you do it, the easier it'll be, and the better you'll get.

I might upset you.

It's possible, although I doubt it, at least in my case. So long as you're polite, most people will take constructive criticism in the spirit in which it's intended -- indeed, you'll probably be astonished by how grateful most people are.

The key word is 'constructive': no-one wants to read 'Your song is boring and so are you', but a comment like 'Toward the end, I found that it became a little repetitive; maybe you could introduce a couple of new elements to keep things fresh?' is much less likely to ruffle feathers.

If you're in doubt, try using the following simple structure:

1. Say something nice.
2. Say the 'difficult' bit.
3. Say something else nice.

That way the artist goes into your comment with a warm feeling, so is in a good mood when they read the critical bit, and then they have something nice at the end to perk themselves up again if they need it.

(Someone's going to pop up and call this the 'PR Hamburger' if I don't, so I suppose I'd better get it out of the way. I don't like the term because it implies to me that you're deviously 'spinning' your comment, rather than just being tactfully honest. There, I've said it now, let's move on.)

You might say something nasty about one of my songs.

Leaving negative comments and/or ratings in 'revenge' is strictly prohibited on iCompositions. If this happens to you, report it to a moderator immediately. Please, please don't let this put you off -- otherwise, the bullies have already won.

Conclusion

Constructive criticism is a skill like any other. It can be learnt, and it improves with practice. But more importantly, any time you leave a constructive comment on a song, you're helping the artist, yourself, and anyone else who happens to be reading -- and if that isn't a good thing, someone must've redefined 'good thing' and not told me. And I hate that.

-Eido

PS I lied about the test. But if you scrolled down to check -- ha, made you look.
Latest Song: Arriving (AITW)
Artist Page Send Message Sep 26, 2011 | 1:54 pm
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